Apologia Report AR-Talk
June 25, 1997

Subject: AR-talk FYI, Host System Problems
Date: 06/26 8:14 AM

Originally from: Rich Poll <Apologia@XC.Org>
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 97 12:04:42 -0000

On 6/25/97 2:03 PM, Harry McFarland <ar-talk@xc.org> wrote:

>I tried to get this posted Tuesday; it never showed up.

For the record, Mission Aviation Fellowship's server running AR-talk and
Apologia's virtual Web site has had a bad week. I believe I've been
notified of all the bounced posts that never made it, like Harry's above,
and have forwarded the bounce back to the authors with a recommendation
to try reposting.

From what I can tell, it looks like the server is humming again.

Rich

                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     Rich Poll <Apologia@xc.org>
                                        Owner/Moderator, AR-talk
                                           <http://apologia.org>

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Subject:     AR-talk Re: Jesus Christ! It is the time for salvation and being
Date:        06/25 8:51 PM
Received:    06/25 5:15 PM
From:        Harry McFarland, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: harrymac@arctic.net (Harry McFarland)
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:52:50 -0800

Here's the text from the ads running in the Vancouver (B.C.) Sun (I
believe that's the paper's name):

Harry McFarland
>___________________Start AD_________________________
>
>VANCOUVER SETTING FOR REUNION OF 2 'CHRISTS' by Ian Austin
>
>        "Christ" is coming to Vancouver to find himself.
>        According to the God's Salvation Church of San Diams, Calif. a
>Taiwanese eight-year-old who is the "Jesus Christ of East" is due here
>tomorrow to m;eet the "Jesus Christ of West."
>        "This is the choice of our heavenly father," Ling-Ling Chen said
>fron Garland, Tes., whence she's preparing to make the trek to Vancouver.
>        Chen's husband Hon-Ming Chen, the 42-year-old founder of the
>church, purports to have been told by God of the Western Christ.
>        "He is about 27-30 years old, and he's living in Vancouver, and he
>knows who he is," said Ling-Ling, 37.
>        The Chen family-they have two children, Yen-Jen and Yen-Jye-are not
>shy about their search.
>        They spent thousands of dollars on large ads in The Province and
>the Vancouver Sun hoping to catch the eye of the holy man living here.
>        "It is the time for the Jesus Christ of East and the Jesus Christ
>of West being together," reads the ad from the Chens, recent emigrants from
>Taiwan.
>        "We are going to Vancouver B.C. Canada to meet with you according
>to the sign from our Lord the heavenly father. We estimate to arrive in
>Vancouver at 13:15 p.m. with the flight No. 533 via Air Canada on June 25,
>1997. You are going to see a child named Lo Chi-Jen in their group who is
>the eastern Jesus Christ with a Chinese farmer's hat (shape like the top of
>a gazebo)on his head and the crown of heaven in his hand, and that is the
>affirmation of the reunion.
>
>That is the article written for the ad, Here is the ad. (It was bordered by
>triangles and plus signs):
>
>        JESUS CHRIST! It is time for SALVATION and being TOGETHER
>                                Reveal the secret from heaven for the
>coming of Jesus Christ. Every person including Jesus has three spiritual
>bodies. About two thousand years ago, Jesus Christ was crucified (this is
>to realize the proclamation that he will come again, reference to Bible
>Mathew 24; The Great Tribulation). The Holy Spirit is then divided into
>three parts:
>
>        One Parts: The Son of man is coming in the year 1999 after the
>great tribulation, then all the tribes of earth will mourn and they will
>see the Son of man coning on the clouds of heaven with power and great
>glory.
>
>        Another Parts: Born in the eastern Asia-Taiwan.
>
>        The Other Parts: Born in the West-Vancouver B.C. Canada.
>
>Why will come this way? This is the way he promised to appear.
>
>(1) Not to let the selected ones from the Lord be astrayed from false
>Christ, for many will come in My name, saying "I am the Christ".
>
>(2) To practice the proclaimed, for as the lightning comes from the east
>and shines as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of man.
>
>(3) At the year of 1999, the days in the East (east Asia) as were the days
>of Noah, with the flood coming so will the coming of the Son of man fromt
>he east for hte salvation.
>
>(4) The days of Sodom must take place in the east Asia, which will happen
>with the suffering of nuclear war, all of these will happen before the last
>6 months of 1999.
>
>Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these
>things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not
>pass away (This is *our Lord* the heavenly father's promise of salvation
>to the mankind.)
>
>2.* Our Lord the Heavenly Father has come for the Salvation! The kingdom
>of heaven has arrived!* This actually happened at the beginning of the
>year of 1996. In the year 1999 after the great tribulation, *our lord* the
>heavenly father and Jesus Christ will come to earth on the clouds of heaven
>with power and great glory.
>
>It is the time for the Jesus Chrsit of East and the Jesus Christ of West
>being together.
>
>*Your family members and disciples of two thousand years ago have revived
>(born again). We are going to Vancouver, B.C. Canada to meet with you
>according to the sign from our Lord the heavenly father. We estimate *to
>arrive in Vancouver at 13:15 PM with the flight NO. 533 via Air Canada June
>25, 1997.* You are going to see a child named Lo, Chi-Jen in their group
>who is the eastern Jesus Christ with a Chinese farmer's hat (shape like the
>top of a gazebo) on his head and the crown of heaven in his hand, and that
>is the affirmation of the reunion.
>
>        Our contact in Los Angeles:
>                God's Salvation Church
>                217 W. Bonita Ave.,
>                San Dimas, CA 91773
>                Tel: (909) 599-5283
>
>Our Contact in The Holy Place of Kingdom heaven:
>                Hon-Ming Chen                   Yen-Jen Chen
>                Ling-Long Chen                    Yen-Jye Chen
>                3513 Ridgedale Dr., Garland, TX 75041, USA
>                Tel: (972) 864-5517

Subject: Re: AR-talk RB Thieme
Date: 06/26 10:30 AM

Originally from: Rich Poll <Apologia@XC.Org>
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 97 13:08:48 -0000

On 6/25/97 6:54 PM, Ron Rhodes <ar-talk@xc.org> wrote:

>FYI -- Thieme was the one who led Lindsey to the Lord.

Not only did I not know Lindsey referred to Thieme in Late Great, but now
to learn that Thieme led Lindsey to the Lord as well! Now THAT is
interesting indeed.

I wonder if there are spiritual connections we will never understand this
side of Glory which relate the aberrations of these two "Christian
leaders"?

Keep your answer brief, no more than 23K please. :)

Rich

                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                     Rich Poll <Apologia@xc.org>
                                         Editor, Apologia Report
                                           <http://apologia.org>

Subject:     AR-talk RES: Bruderhof Online
Date:        06/25 9:30 PM
Received:    06/25 5:15 PM
From:        fwarner@bruderhof.com, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: <fwarner@bruderhof.com>
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:31:08 -0400

Thanks for the recent item in Apologia Report on James Wall's article
concerning CBS 48 Hours distorted segment on the Bruderhof
communities. They also did a number on the Amish.
An online weekly newsletter is available (Plough Online), for those
who would like to know more about the Bruderhof, and our involvement
with current issues & concerns of the world. Here's a brief sample:
===============
Plough Online Weekly Announcement - the latest at http://www.bruderhof.org/

to SUBSCRIBE e-mail subscribe@bruderhof.org
with SUBSCRIBE ANNOUNCE in the subject line.

June 24, 1997
********************
DISCUSSION MAILING LIST
It's finally here--the Plough Online Discussion List! You are invited to
subscribe to a new mailing list to discuss Plough Online books and articles
with other readers. Messages posted to the list will be compiled in a
daily digest and sent to subscribers.
To subscribe, e-mail subscribe@bruderhof.org with the words SUBSCRIBE
DISCUSS in the subject line or fill out the online form at:
http://www.bruderhof.org/announce.htm
********************
ABOUT PLOUGH ONLINE
If you can't figure out what Plough Online is all about or if you want to
know more about the community behind Plough Online there's an excellent
introduction with pictures at:

http://www.bruderhof.org/lifestyle/bruderhof/index.htm

Subject:     AR-talk Prophecy Teacher D. Clark
Date:        06/25 10:55 PM
Received:    06/25 5:15 PM
From:        Raric@aol.com, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: <Raric@aol.com>
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:56:19 -0400 (EDT)

Dear all,

I have a question. Does anyone know what happened to Canadian prophecy
teacher Doug Clark who used to be on TBN. The last I heard, he was on the run
from postal inspectors who wanted him for mail fraud. Was he ever captured?
Tried? Convicted? Or, is he still at large? My last piece of news on him is a
"Wanted" poster dated May 30, 1991. If any info can be forwarded to me
regarding his fate, I would greatly appreciate it being sent (e-mailed) to me
ASAP. I am working on a project. Thanks.

In Christ,

Richard Abanes
Religious Information Center

Subject:     AR-talk From CPI: The official response from the General Supt.
Date:        06/26 6:52 AM
Received:    06/26 8:54 AM
From:        Harry McFarland, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: harrymac@arctic.net (Harry McFarland)
Originally dated: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:53:34 -0800

Truly just an FYI I got on one of the P/C discussion lists I monitor.
Anton's probably seen it. This is from Assembly of God superintendent.

>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:58:10 -600
>Subject: Official Response
>
>The Offical Response from Headquarters
>
>> =======================
>>
>> Subject: Brownsville
>>
>> This is in response to your e-mail concerning the revival in
>> Brownsville:
>>
>> Choice Christian Greetings!
>>
>> First, let me say that the Brownsville Assembly of God in Pensacola,
>> Florida, is an outstanding church that has been in a sovereign move of
>> the Spirit now for many months. I was there to minister on a Sunday
>> morning last August. They have recorded thousands of people saved and
>> the revival continues to go on. Every evangelical church in the city
>> has benefited from this revival and many of our Assemblies of God
>> churches are experiencing sovereign moves of the Spirit as a result of
>> pastors and laypeople visiting this assembly.
>>
>> Of course, if you go back in history, there have always been those who
>> have not used wisdom and have allowed for excesses. People want
>> revival so much that they try to produce it themselves. Some go to
>> excesses with manifestations in the flesh. So this is a day that
>> requires a greater responsibility upon leadership to try and keep a
>> balance in the church. John Kilpatrick has used the term to 'pastor'
>> the revival.
>>
>> My appraisal of what is taking place is that where strong leadership
>> is in place, there is a wonderful outpouring of the Holy Spirit with
>> good balance. That does not mean that we have to put God in a box, it
>> doesn't mean that we are saying to God He can't move outside the
>> framework of which we are accustomed; but, its within the Scriptural
>> guidelines given to us by His word. Where there seems to be weak
>> leadership, then there are the excesses that are allowed. I guess from
>> my vantage point, I'd rather have to deal with excesses with what God
>> is doing, than have to try and stir the fire where it has been so
>> dead. These are good problems, but certainly are not without caution,
>> and without a deep concern from my vantage point.
>>
>> The Assemblies of God has not endorsed or put its approval on
>> everything that is taking place out there in the landscape of what is
>> known as revival or renewal, whether it be Pensacola, Toronto, or some
>> other place. We can have some indicators, however, in knowing what is
>> of God and what is of the flesh. True revival, and a sovereign move of
>> the Holy Spirit, always produces more than just an emotional high for
>> the believer, but it becomes a motivating factor which carries to
>> those who are lost. Seeing what God is doing and knowing that lives
>> have been transformed by the Power of the Holy Spirit, verifies that
>> God is doing a sovereign work within this church. The long and short
>> of the whole matter is that we be open to what God is doing but not be
>> gullible to everything that comes along under the banner of revival.
>> Many of our churches are enjoying a sovereign move of the Holy Spirit.
>> But these have always been supported by the foundation pillars of
>> prayer, and result in an evangelism outreach where men and women are
>> being saved, filled with the Holy Spirit, healed, and delivered.
>>
>> Open your heart to God, look to Him rather than man or manifestations
>> of the flesh. God will direct you, meet you where you are, and it will
>> be satisfying to your spirit man. You can be the catalyst for bringing
>> true revival, but it comes through prayer and fasting with an earnest
>> desire to receive from the Lord.
>>
>> I trust this information is helpful. Please join me in prayer that God
>> would grant the Assemblies of God a revival of old-fashioned Pentecost
>> so that sinner and saint will know that this is of the Spirit. May the
>> Lord richly bless you is our sincere prayer.
>>
>> Thomas E. Trask

Subject:     AR-talk Cults (Issues in Focus)
Date:        06/26 5:26 AM
Received:    06/25 11:03 PM
From:        jkambas@ix.netcom.com, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: <jkambas@ix.netcom.com>
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:27:02 -0500 (CDT)

I came across the following book at Amazon.com:

Cults (Issues in Focus)
by Karen Zeinert
Published by Enslow Pub
Pub Date: June 1997

Does anyone have any information on it? I'm not familiar with the author.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance,

Jennifer A. Kambas
jkambas@ix.netcom.com

Subject: Re: AR-talk Fw: Water Stain or Sign From God?
Date: 06/27 1:09 AM

Originally from: Rich Poll <Apologia@XC.Org>
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 97 09:39:58 -0000

On 6/26/97 9:12 AM, CRAIG MILES <ar-talk@xc.org> wrote:

>Originally from: cmiles@theonramp.net (CRAIG MILES)
>Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:13:11 -0400
>
>
>
>----------
>> From: cmiles <cmiles@theonramp.net>
>> To: AR-Talk@xc.org
>> Subject: Water Stain or Sign From God?
>> Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 12:46 AM
>>
>> Adapted and edited from: CNN Interactive
>> http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9706/22/mexico.virgin/index.html
>> Originally dated: 22 June 1997
>>
>> MEXICO CITY- The Hidalgo subway station in Mexico City has become an

I suspect the reason for duplicating this entire post was that the
originator believed it never arrived at AR-talk. Well, it did, and so did
the duplicate. Perhaps my note about our host's server problems led to
this.

The following comes from the welcome message to AR-talk which MAF's
majordomo generates for all new subscribers:

>Welcome to the MAFxc ar-talk conference!
>
>To send a message to this conference, write to ar-talk@XC.Org
>NOTE: Messages you send will *not* be sent back to you.
> They *will* go to all other subscribers to this conference.
>
>If you ever want to remove yourself from this conference,
>you can send mail to "hub@XC.Org" with the following command...

As the note above states, messages from authors do not echo. I which they
did. It is the most common complaint to MAF about their majordomo
software. They say they hope to fix it. I hope so too.

Rich

Subject:     AR-talk Jesus of the East
Date:        06/26 8:15 PM
Received:    06/26 9:50 PM
From:        Harry McFarland, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: harrymac@arctic.net (Harry McFarland)
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:16:19 -0800

Two articles on Jesus of East for your amusement, files, whatever.

Thursday 26 June 1997

Ian Mulgrew
Vancouver Sun

A nine-year-old
Taiwanese boy who
calls himself the
reincarnated Christ
came to Vancouver
Wednesday to meet his
spiritual twin.

But after four hours
in an airport lounge,
Lo Chi-Jen turned to
munching chicken
burgers and sipping
Coke from a souvenir Lost World cup.

Jesus of the West was a no-show.

"He may have arrived earlier, but we are sure we will
find him in Vancouver," said Hong-Ming Chen, abbot of
the God's Salvation Church. The child and his
entourage plan to stay another week to 10 days in
Vancouver before returning to Dallas, Texas.

The apocalyptic sect, founded roughly eight years ago
in Taiwan, moved its operations to the United States
18 months ago, Chen said. It claims about 200 or so
members in Taiwan, San Dimas, Calif., and Garland,
Texas.

Although the Bible talks of the Second Coming heralded
by angels, Lo arrived just after 1 p.m. on Air Canada
Flight 533 from Los Angeles, accompanied by his
family, Chen and a handful of followers.

The boy, dressed in blue jeans, Converse runners and a
Garfield shirt, was met by a crowd drawn by a pricey
ad campaign trumpeting the meeting between "Jesus of
the East" and "Jesus of the West."

Some came to scoff.

Stu Marvel, 21, came clutching a bowl of lemons that
she offered to the boy. "You've heard of the loaves
and fishes," she said, "I want you to make lemonade
for the terminal. Then I'll believe in you."

The young boy only toyed with the lemons and she left
still skeptical.

"I came because one of the best ways to find out about
a cult is to get out and meet them," said Trevor
Girardin, a 31-year-old graduate student in Christian
studies at Regent College.

A man calling himself David approached the boy, saying
he had hitchhiked from Chilliwack after a vision.

"I was called," the 34-year-old said, his pupils as
big as saucers. "I have gone through an awakening."

Chen shook his head. "You are not the one."

Jesus of the West, according to Chen's cabalistic
reading of biblical texts, is nearly six feet tall
(196 cm), caucasian and was born in Vancouver in 1969.

Nearby, a black man calling himself "Abraham," held a
staff over his head and trembled for several minutes
while muttering. He then left saying, "Shalom." Some
of the crowd shouted insults, many whispered derisive
comments.

Throughout it all, the boy seemed unperturbed but
uncomfortable with the attention. His only words
through an interpreter were, "I'm pleased and happy to
be here."

In Chen's millenary interpretation of scripture, Jesus
had three spiritual bodies that will be reunited in
1999 when "The Great Tribulation" will occur. There
will be a nuclear war, Chen believes, and at that time
the Jesus who was crucified will return on clouds of
heaven to join his two still-terrestrial bodies.

Lo was identified as Jesus of the East 18 months ago
when he told his family God had spoken to him and
revealed his identity.

Lo's father Lo Szu-kuan said the boy was a normal
youngster.

"This is a heavy load for him," said the elder Lo, a
39-year-old who said he was a medical doctor in
Taiwan.

-------------------------------------------------------
Thursday 26 June 1997

          Jason Proctor,
           Staff Reporter
          The Province

          The crown of heaven gets a little heavy to
          handle at times.

          Pint-sized prophet Lo Chi-Jen, known to
          followers as the Eastern Jesus, looked
          more than a little fidgety yesterday as he stood on
          arrival in Vancouver's airport searching a small crowd
          of the curious for his Western counterpart.

          In his hands, the crown of heaven -- a
          silver-garlanded Chinese farmer's hat intended for an
          as-yet-undiscovered Vancouver messiah.

          The boy was wearing his own crown for the occasion, a
          modest straw version of the first, tied like a bonnet
          under his chin with a big blue ribbon. Both crowns
          were made in Taiwan.

"Normally he doesn't wear it," said the Taiwanese
boy's companion and translator, Sam Wood.

"But today, because God told him to have it on his
head, he put it on."

          A small crowd of onlookers turned up for Lo Chi-Jen's
          arrival from Garland, Tex. -- most prompted by
          expensive ads in The Province and the Vancouver Sun
          heralding his arrival.

          Wood said the nine-year-old discovered he was the
          Eastern Christ after meeting with his mentor, Hon-Ming
          Chen, founder of God's Salvation Church. Both Chen and
          the boy said they received word from God of his true
          identity. God also apparently told them that another
          Christ -- a six-foot-three-inch Canadian-born
          Caucasian -- was living in Vancouver. So they came
          yesterday to find him.

          The cameras, reporters, lights and questions lying in
          wait would have made the toughest of Roman inquisitors
          look tame by comparison.

          A woman asked the boy to turn a bowl of lemons into
          lemonade for the whole airport. A man asked him why he
          didn't stop sickness and war.

After a while, Wood said the boy needed to focus.

          Shuffling from foot to foot, unwrapping the golden
          fabric covering the crown, wrapping it back up again,
          eventually sitting down and balancing the awkward hat
          on one knee, the Eastern Christ scanned the crowd
          through thick glasses.

          He had a soft drink and a hamburger. No sign of a
          Christ in front of Burger King or The Elephant and
          Castle.

          A couple of hopefuls came forward: David, a tall,
          freaky man with huge eyes (born in 1963; no dice), and
          Abraham, a large black man with a wooden staff (didn't
          stand a chance). One man with long hair and a beard
          lurked in the background (way too short).

          Standing nearby, the boy's father, Lo Szu Kuan, said
          his son has 12 days in Vancouver. Plenty of time for
          the search.

It's not easy raising Christ, Kuan said. He tries not
to let him watch too much violent TV or cartoons.

          "I don't doubt he's a special kid," said a woman,
          leaving a thinning crowd. "But I don't know if he's
          the messiah."

Subject:     AR-talk RES: Scientology materials...
Date:        06/26 2:35 PM
Received:    06/26 8:54 AM
From:        Anton Hein, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: ahein@xs4all.nl (Anton Hein)
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:35:33 GMT

My ISP, XS4ALL, is known for its protection of free speech (do a Web
search on XS4ALL...), and is thus a good place to post anti-Scientology
files.

This guy has made quite a production of it:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeta/

Some of the stuff available for downloading: (Must admit I like the
"fakenotes."

Blue Sky[360 K, -> TXT-file] Scientology ruined the writer (Jon Atack)
of this book (A Piece Of Blue Sky). If you have some money to spend: buy
it.

Colonels[263 K, -> HTM, GIF & JPG-files] Hubbard almost succeeded in
taking over the Greek island Corfu.
Startfile = colonels.htmH.O.M.[064 K, -> TXT-file]

'A History of Man': a withdrawn manuscript written by Hubbard... It is
also available in a nice lay-out (HTML) here.Docslife[1901 K, -> 145
(HTM &) GIF-files] The facts about Hubbards life, prove included
(scanned-in documents: 95%). Assembled by a confidant of Hubbard! (No ,
I'm not gonna tell you her/his name). This is a work in progress... To
get an impression of what you will get: Click here. (All the seperate
files are at this address)

FakeNots[003 K, -> HTM-files] If you unzip this you get 8 (very small)
files named ned1.htm, ned2.htm etc. By putting these as HTML-files in
your WWW-directory you fool the Scientology computer investigators...
:-)

Fishman[061 K, -> TXT-file] The famous affidavit of Fishman who was
in-Scientology a long time. The contents of this affidavit is spreaded
at this site; by subject.

Lisa Memorial[This is a link to the site where you can obtain the Zip]
Lisa McPherson died in a horrible way while under the 'auditing-care' of
fellow Scientologist's.

Scandal[117 K, -> TXT-file] The famous book of Paulette Cooper.

SiteZip[528 K, -> 1,2 Mb HTM, GIF, etc] The main html-ized files on this
site with the exception of the Scientology Secrets files (see next zip)
and the zip-files here. Most of the links will work off-line; together
with the next Zip all links will work. This file will change often. The
information consists of 95% text. Startfile = sindex.html
The affidavit section is not yet added because it is under construction.

Secrets[614 K, -> 1,6 Mb HTML, GIF, etc] All the main Super Secrets of
Scientology. Startfile = ss.html

Stankbel[062 K, -> HTM & GIF-files] This is a booklet of the writer
Gerrit Komrij. [In the Dutch language]

Tabayoyon[040 K, -> TXT-files] An almost unbelievable affidavit from
Andre, who was very 'in-Scientology'. Html-ized version HERE.

and a recent message from the site's web master:

>Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.clearing.technology,nl.scientology,

>xs4all.general,dds.divers
>Subject: CoS/RTC to Xs4all: close that site (& account) immediately.
>Followup-To: alt.religion.scientology,nl.scientology
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:05:18 GMT
>Organization: Dutch BodyThetan Association.
>Lines: 26
>Message-ID: <33b14f73.18953403@news.xs4all.nl>
>Reply-To: REMOVE_THIS_jeta@xs4all.nl
>NNTP-Posting-Host: asd09-01.dial.xs4all.nl
>X-XS4ALL-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:04:34 CEST
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
>Xref: xs4all alt.religion.scientology:299931 alt.clearing.technology:28158 nl.scientology:9005 xs4all.general:49366 dds.divers:6944

> Today (June 25, 1997) I received a message from Felipe,
>director of my ISP "Access for All". The lawfirm of the 'Church'
>of Scientology + RTC over here (Nauta Dutilh) contacted him.
>
> Their demands:
> remove the Jeta-site and close the account immediately.
>
> How unexpected.
>
> Felipe told them to contact me directly (they now how to
>reach me).
>
> At the site is a Zip file (614K) witch contains all the
>AT-materials fully html-ized.
>
> The files themselves (HCO's, OTs, NOTs, Lectures, L's, etc.)
>are also on-line. The whole is a sort of html-database.
>
> Well..., will or won't they send draft subpoena's again,
>that's the question. :-)
>
>--
>Jeta.
> Go to http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeta to
> obtain the Suicide & Psychosis lists.

Anton

------------------------------------------------------------
|Christian Ministry Report: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ahein
|Daily, Up-To-Date Christian News; Online Bible Study Library;
|Renewal/Revival Information; Holland's Online Christian Directory.

Subject: AR-talk RETRY: FYI WTBTS Still Excusing "1914 Generation" Reinterpr
Date:        06/26 10:42 PM
Received:    06/26 9:51 PM
From:        JKWWFI@aol.com, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: <JKWWFI@aol.com>
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:43:06 -0400 (EDT)

TO: All Watchman Staff
FROM: James Walker
RE: Watchtower Still Trying To Explain "1914 Generation" Redefinition
CC: AR-Talk and other friends

<<<<<<<Second Attempt -- First truncated>>>>>>>>>>>

Here is an interesting note I received this from our webmaster, Jason Barker,
who is also a former Jehovah's Witness. I am forwarding it to you. The
Watchtower must still be getting a lot of questions/complaints about their
reinterpretation of "generation."

> On page 28 of the June 1, 1997, Watchtower, the Society says that "With. .
.
> sincere intentions, God's servants in modern times have tried to derive
from
> what Jesus said about 'generation' some clear time element calculated from
> 1914. For instance, one line of reasoning has been that a generation can
be
> 70 or 80 years, made up of people old enough to grasp the significance of
the
> first world war and other developments. . .However well-meaning such
thinking
> was, did it comply with the advice Jesus went on to give? [They then quote
Mt.
> 24:36-42]".
>
> Yet again, the Society blames an ambiguous group of "God's servants" with
> following an inaccurate "line of reasoning". Isn't this kind of like the
> blame-shifting they did in 1979 and 1980 over the failed 1975 prophecy?
>
> I still think an article comparing the new JW definition of "generation"
> with the LDS definition in relation to the Independence temple prophecy
would
> be interesting.

See related Watchman Expositor articles:

Watchtower Redefines "1914 Generation"
(http://rampages.onramp.net/~watchman/1914hst1.htm) and

A Watchtower History of 1914
(http://rampages.onramp.net/~watchman/1914hst2.htm).

James K. Walker, president
Watchman Fellowship, Inc.
jkwwfi@aol.com
www.watchman.org

Subject:     AR-talk House of Yahweh interview on NBC's Today Show
Date:        06/26 10:53 PM
Received:    06/26 9:51 PM
From:        JKWWFI@aol.com, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: <JKWWFI@aol.com>
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:54:48 -0400 (EDT)

I just received a call from Al Hinkel of NBC. He said that the interview
they recorded here last week with Watchman's Phillip Arnn is tentatively
scheduled to air on the Today Show Thursday, July 3rd.

The subject is the Abilene-based cult The House of Yahweh. For those of you
not familiar with the group, it reminds me of the Branch Davidians about
three years before the raid. FYI: Watchman has a Profile on the group here:

http://rampages.onramp.net/~watchman/yahpro.htm

James Walker, president
Watchman Fellowship, Inc.
jkwwfi@aol.com
www.watchman.org

PS. House of Yahweh is also the cover story of the current issue of Texas
Monthly containing some good, never-before published information (but not
available online).

Subject:     AR-talk Shinreikyo Information Center
Date:        06/27 3:04 AM
Received:    06/26 9:50 PM
From:        John W. Morehead, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org
CC:          tqi@quiknet.com

Originally from: jwmorehead@juno.com (John W. Morehead)
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:05:35 EDT

We received this e-mail transmission to our web page after someone
reviewed information posted there on near-death experiences. We haven't
checked out their URL yet, so we're taking the initial contact at face
value. We submit it for your review.

John W. Morehead
Executive Vice President
TruthQuest Institute
e-mail: jwmorehead@juno.com
http://www.fopc.org/aric
-----------Begin forwarded message---------------

To: tqi@quiknet.com
Subject: Info. on Shinreikyo and Sublime Transmigration
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Person,

I looked at your Web site featuring Near-Death Experiences. I would like
to introduce Shinreikyo and Sublime Transmigration to you.
Shinreikyo is a Japanese new religion, called "The Fountainhead of
Miracles". A Shinreikyo follower can live out his or her natural life
span, and then go to heaven through Sublime Transmigration. A
follower enjoys good health even when elderly, and foresees the time of
transmigration from three months or six months to a year in advance.
Several days before dying a natural death, he or she cheerfully says
good-bye to family and friends. The person dies as peacefully as if he
or she were falling asleep.

After the last breath, the dead body stays warm, and the body
temperature does not drop for many hours. Also, the body does not get
rigid, but stays flexible. As time passes, the skin takes on a pink
glow, and the countenance becomes sublime and lofty.
These marvelous events are characteristic of Shinreikyo's Sublime
Transmigration, and are actual proof of next-life salvation. In
traditional religions, even saints or high-ranking priests have attained
it very rarely. In Shinreikyo, however, this kind of transmigration
occurs to every faithful follower without exception. We have a lot of
film to document this. When a follower has been completely saved in the
present life and is blessed for the next life, the person's inner joy
has an impact on the physical body, even after death.

For further information, please see our Web site at the following URL.

http://www.shinreikyo.or.jp

Thank you.

With Divine Grace,

Kazuhiko Hosokawa,
Priest; Head of Shinreikyo Information Center
---------End forwarded message-----------------

Subject:     AR-talk FYI: When you don't see your own messages here...
Date:        06/26 10:32 PM
Received:    06/26 9:51 PM
From:        Anton Hein, ar-talk@xc.org
To:          AR-talk, ar-talk@xc.org

Originally from: ahein@xs4all.nl (Anton Hein)
Originally dated: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:32:13 GMT

On Thu, 26 Jun 97 09:39:58 -0000, you, ar-talk@xc.org (Rich Poll),
wrote:

>As the note above states, messages from authors do not echo. I which they
>did. It is the most common complaint to MAF about their majordomo
>software. They say they hope to fix it. I hope so too.

The fact that you can't see your own messages can be a nuisance. Still,
unless a message bounces back to you, you can be sure it made it to the
list.

If you want to see your own messages simply to keep track of what you
wrote, make sure you save a copy of all outgoing messages. A simple
work-around solution is to cc: yourself on messages you send to the
list.

If you use a program (such as Agent or Eudora) that can be set up to
sort incoming messages into the folders of your choice, the messages
you cc: yourself on will show up in your AR-Talk folder.

Anton
------------------------------------------------------------
|Christian Ministry Report: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ahein
|Daily, Up-To-Date Christian News; Online Bible Study Library;
|Renewal/Revival Information; Holland's Online Christian Directory.

Apologia Report AR-TalkJune 25, 1997

Apologia Report AR-Talk
June 25, 1997